By: Mdu Ntuli and Karl Cloete
The ANC held its National General Council (NGC) in June 2005. Prior to this important meeting, Numsa writers Mdu Ntuli and Karl Cloete asked ANC secretary general, Kgalema Motlanthe, to take them through some of the issues likely to come up there. What is the difference between the National General Council (NGC) and the National Conference (NC)?
The NC focuses on the election of leadership as well as the discussion and adoption of resolutions.
The NGC meets mid way between the NCs. It does not review policy. It assesses whether we are correctly structured to implement what was resolved; do we have organisational capacity to equal the challenges that we set out at conferences. It determines whether the organisation has leadership to execute resolutions be it at local level, government, business or any public office. The NGC is also meant to assess whether we have the kind of cadreship that is capable of mobilizing the motive forces in society.
What was the significance of the 2000 NGC theme “ANC – peoples revolutionary movement and agent for change”?
Coming out of the Mafikeng conference the term of office was changed from three years to five years. As the ANC transformed the society, we realised that the ANC itself was undergoing a process of change both in content and in the calibre of its cadreship. For the first time we were no longer just a liberation movement but a ruling party. Positions of responsibility brought with them the possibility of material gains for individual members.
Before 1990 the ANC consisted of people who were defined by generosity and who were prepared to sacrifice everything for the good of all. In this new setting where the ANC is the ruling party, there were now other reasons than the generosity that defined freedom fighters. We had to grapple with the challenge of how to manage this new situation.
Is material gain still the major reason why you think people join the ANC rather than a volunteer type cadre whose political contribution is intended for the greater good of the people?
There is always the danger of generalising out of a particular experience. But the capacity of the organisation to reproduce the selfless dedicated cadres is weaker now than in those days of the struggle. And as a consequence the organisation has been handling political education on topical issues of the day – if for example we go into CODESA the political mass education will focus on the negotiations in Codesa.
The ANC NEC held in March 2005 identified a number of discussion documents that will be discussed at the NGC in June 2005 – can you indicate which key strategic issues are likely to be discussed?
There a number of important discussion documents. If we take the document on unity and cohesion for instance – once members have gone through it they will understand the importance of unity and cohesion. Without it there is not much that we can achieve.
We don’t have to invent adversaries. Once you say you are embarking on a revolution, revolution co-exists with counter revolution all the time. Both have the right to want to succeed all the time. It’s no use moaning about what counter revolution wants to do. If you do that without showing determination for the revolution to succeed, you just invite defeat.
What about organisational issues?
The organisational design document asks questions such as: “Is the ANC properly designed given today’s challenges? Where are the fault lines? Do we have sufficient co-ordination channels? We are in an alliance, are we correctly structured?” and so on.
Policy is determined by the ANC and government has to implement the policies of the ANC but policies in themselves are without detail so the detail gets developed by government. Is there structural capacity in the ANC to monitor and ensure that there is no deviation?
Premiers are appointed by the President and the Provinces elect the Chairpersons – might it be that the NGC will look at the tensions that have arisen in some of the provinces?
Once appointed by the President the Premier leads government. The ANC is led by the Provincial Secretary who is the person who has to keep the ANC together. That is why the Provincial Secretary is the only one from the provincial leadership who has to be full-time in the ANC. Once you accept election into that position you have no right to any other gainful employment or occupation. But all the others such as chairperson, deputy chair, deputy secretary and treasurer can be in business, in government, in the public service in full time employment. They are part time in the ANC. The person who leads the ANC is the Provincial Secretary.
The Provincial Secretary and the Premier ought to work together as a team all the time because the Premier is the Premier in the name of the ANC on behalf of the ANC. By virtue of occupying that office, he or she may come across information, sometimes even sensitive information, but they must at all times make sure that the leader of the ANC is on board. If for instance there are confidential issues, the leader of the ANC must be informed so that when other members of the ANC get wind of certain things or get questions they must know that we can go to the Provincial Secretary and ask if the ANC is aware of this.
I don’t understand the jockeying for the position of chairperson. I don’t understand it because the chairperson is merely meant to chair meetings. The provincial secretary prepares for those meetings and determines the agenda for those meetings. I can understand this development in the past when the chairperson of a province could become Premier but that is not the case anymore.
How do you respond to the call that the alliance becomes a political centre that develops and drives policy?
A political centre presupposes that there are levels of confidence in each other. Confidential matters that the President confides in me, for instance, remain confidential until such time as we agree that now we must brief the structures on these issues.
How do you understand the idea of a political centre?
You have to say who of the elected leadership constitute that structure. You can say the presidents of the alliance must constitute that structure. If there is no mutual confidence it can’twork as a political centre. It will only deal with matters itemised for discussion. Now a political centre goes beyond that.
In the ANC’s history for instance it is known that in the ’50s Chief Albert Luthuli as president general of the ANC, would always first ask Moses Kotane before taking a major decision. The same applies to Oliver Tambo. In 1962 at the last conference of the ANC in Lebetsi , Botswana after its banning, Oliver Tambo said to conference, ‘I need Moses Kotane to come and join me outside.’ Without that the task would be insurmountable. That’s what you mean by political centre. It means not just discussing itemised things or matters that require immediate decision making but strategising together knowing that at that level you deal with all kinds of issues.
Hence your emphasis of confidence and trust?
Yes, confidence and trust are key. It may very well be that such a centre may come into being but its composition might be different. It may be that in the ANC it is the president, in Cosatu it is the general secretary or the general secretary of an affiliate. To be a leader does not mean that you have to occupy a position and office – you can lead because you have a better understanding all the time of what the next step is going to be. And you can have such people without them occupying any position but you know and the structures also know. Once that happens you have the functioning of a political centre.
Sometimes people have different expectations. A formal structure works on the basis of a formal agenda and anything outside of the formal agenda is out of bounds.
So are you saying that this notion of a political centre is not entirely new – that it has existed before?
Yes, Walter Sisulu as SG in the ANC was in the Party and belonged to a structure in the Party and a group that was never ever disclosed under any circumstances because of the position he occupied and because of the role he had to play. The last time that Sisulu was Secretary of the ANC was when he was restricted in 1953. The next formal position that he occupied was only after he came out of prison and yet he was leader throughout. That’s how a political centre works.
The story is told of Moses Kotane as general secretary of the Party who in exile said to Oliver Tambo – “you must never be a member of the Party even if others recruit you. I’m the General Secretary of the Party, your membership application will never be accepted because in perspective and thinking Oliver Tambo embodies the best of what the Party aspires to and why neutralise that – why impose a situation where as Moses Kotane I should say to the world that you are not a Party member when you are – I will not do that.” It is that level of comfort, perspective and interaction that was accepted and was never in doubt. That is the political centre. No public declaration?
No public declaration because it is all about political consciousness and how that guides what your relationship is.